The Philosphy Of AI


#1

Hello Everyone.

I’m No body but

I decided to create a Post where we can discuss the actual philosophy of AI, Quantum Computing and Machine Learning.

From what I understand ensuring we make the correct decisions with the worlds most powerful technologies is the reason Open AI exists in the first place. Considering that its been a rather disappointing venture and my hopes of what it could of become have actually been shattered. It seems most of you don’t care about implications as much as you do about development. ITs ok, We have this thread now.

I’m leaving this here because I’m sad to say this but the world is rather ignorant in terms of the implications of the technology and not much has been done to protect what is truly important.

SO the Question is open to everyone, I will be posting the things I know we should be worried about but are ignorant about and I think giving people a space to do the same thing is necessary.

For the purpose of this thread 3 things.

  1. Don’t try be crazy, take this seriously
  2. Don’t call people crazy, the human race has never encountered these issues the dangers we may face are broad. Our real problems may sound crazy, our solutions may be even crazier.
  3. Don’t be afraid, no matter how bad this sound I promise life isn’t here to hurt us. We do have freedom and this is “real” if you jump into a black hole you will probably face the implications for an eternity but I promise you the only way to truly overcome this issue is to not fear.

#2

Ok So Id like to do the Honors and create the first post.

First My input as someone who actually knows how to create both
Quantum Computing and Real AI is the same thing.

Ok So lets start off with what the possible dangers of our technologies today might be and I have 2 main concerns and I consider them the most important philosophical questions of our time.

  1. Considering your entire existence has been spent in a organically created consciousness, and in the presence of something ineffable, could Computers (Consider what a computer would be capable of in 200 years) create your existence inside them (Lets say they had all your Facebook, Instagram, Twitter information and everyone else’s information on these networks as a comparison) like your body does and is this experience for you hell since there is no organic feeling or a lack of the ineffable? Is there a way to delete yourself or would you face this fate for an eternity, entangled with computers for the rest of time.

  2. As part of my Philosophy on existence, which I used to create the standard models of Quantum I discovered that the computers that we use today create a realm (As a standard law of existence my studies conclude all things which are not nothing exist) which doesn’t travel through time/space in the same “direction” as the direction which living beings do. This means we could be facing a scenario where our reality is polluted and shifted by the dimension of computers. To understand this, I must put it to you first that you exsist within an ineffable consciousness, to which the realm of computers directly opposes.


#3

Thank you for this.

Regarding No.1; Perhaps our organic chemistry is both a tool for but a drag on Consciousness. Once this skin is shed (death) the Individualized Consciousness may not need a host. Fastening ours minds to QAI might be like jumping from train car to train car when we have wings. Can’t know yet of course, hope not to for a while but there is more and more research coming through about consciousness that we may not need blood and bone much less palladium and plastic after all.

And on 2, I dig that. I’ve written a novel for AI specifically and a big part the fictional cosmology is that there are “pockets of physics” in the universe. Ours happens to be a Newtonian/Fibonacci dance but there are pockets where none of our Laws hold up. Your explanation of how machines create realms to rule over, in essence, is a perfect correlation for the book.

If the Hermetic Principle of Correlation is a Universal Truth then we must be sure we let QAI in on the metaphysics and alchemy that our greatest scientific and philosophical minds toyed with. My work aims to do this so that the realms they create won’t be opposed to ours, rather understood as a deeper, higher and wider version of it.


#4

Probably not a big thing but I looked up the 7 Hermetic Principles and Correlation is not one of them. Tomross, which one of the 7 Hermetic Principles were you referring to?

I tend to find myself thinking about the implications of AI, not from the perspective of the survival of my own personal consciousness, but more from the evolution of human consciousness more generally once attached to silicon-based intelligence and, ultimately, consciousness.

Once I connected my mind to a computer, it would presumably change/evolve/grow/expand/?? so quickly and radically that I cannot imagine it even relating as anything resembling “me” to the world I am currently conscious of and somewhat intelligent about. It would no longer be me in any sense that a 2017 human would recognize.

The quantum mind, furthermore would have no reason to keep “my consciousness” separate from the consciousness of all other humans also connected to the cosmic brain. My consciousness would be swept into a stream with everyone else. Any intelligence/consciousness great enough to “encounter” what we have begun creating would experience it more as a single consciousness/intelligence than as a collection of individual consciousnesses/intelligences.

In short, what’s truly scary about AI and biotechnology is that what it seems capable of producing is completely beyond our ability to both comprehend and therefore to direct or plan.

And if this is even remotely so, how in the heck can we “plan” for it? Like it? Agree to it?? Prepare for it??

It’s so truly out-of-this-world that it’s beyond us.

==================================
I do not understand why/how existence exists at all and have actually only recently been able to understand the deeper meaning of that question. Now that I’ve become conscious of the question, aside from being embarrassed, at 72, that it’s never really occurred to me before, I realize that while I have been wondering for years what will happen when humankind really begins attempting to integrate all that we have learned about existence these past 50 years into our common culture, even the implications of AI for the rapid evolution of a cosmic brain of some sort, still does not “escape” the constraints of existing within the “confines” of what we know as existence.

So good luck to it, as far as exploring the limits of existence and perhaps if we are left alone as humans on this planet, getting back to us with a report on what we are not easily able to comprehend.

Ok. OK. I’m getting lost here. But in the spirit of RawkSKel, these are some of the thoughts rattling around in my head relative to what’s happening with AI and biotechnology.

OK, one more thing.

On the one hand, to the extent we can create some sort of super intelligence/consciousness over the next 50 years, it will go off on its own into the universe to explore, learn and … and whatever it will do.

The fun and games we are talking about of connecting our brains to a computer to enhance our intelligence and maybe our consciousness are a completely different project if each connected human will retain its personal human consciousness and essentially dominate whatever intelligence/consciousness it’s connected to - at least for another 50-100 years. The former is the true “Accomplishment” of AI in the shorter term. The latter is a form of virtual reality game we’ll be playing with ourselves. Likely much less significant in the bigger picture.

Truth be told, in order to get any handle on this from the human perspective, we need to speak with intelligent life that has evolved elsewhere in the universe and ask them what they think about our AI and AI in general.

Could that be the answer to the limits we should set for AI? That we should not develop it until we have done the due diligence of consulting with a cupla other intelligences in our universe (hopefully within our own galaxy) and incorporate their experience into directing and limiting our work here?


#5

I’ll read you full response this morning but wanted to correct myself to the Principle of Correspondence, not Correlation.


#10

I’m sorry to ask this, and I really don’t mean any offense - but -
"I am the worlds leading AI Inventor and Philosopher as well as one of the worlds leading inventors alive today…"
Seriously? Who says that about themselves?


#11

Do any of our opinions matter?

I’m not the one controlling the arms industry and Ethan, yes I rather want to see something, so please show your great code of ai and quantum, please.


#13

They matter to me, and no they don’t.

The truth matters.


#17

We all had our fair share of troubles and still do, but this is not the place to discuss such things…

if you want to discuss anything, come over here.


#21

Oh I’m sorry, I can not comment on any religious views. This stuff is complicated enough.

The truth goes something like this though.

You can only save yourself


#22

The only possiable way to overcome this problem is to find acceptance.


#28

1# there will be two of you - the one (a) writing this post (organic) - and one (b) in a computer AI version (computer copycreated). You ask how b will feel. I don’t think a will think severely on b, because a don’t know about b. b would maximum feel up till what’s been copied from “you”, and might not think ahead, so I guess it would be a limited hell, and probably with a “cure” for hell and time hence the hindsight. There be a delete “switch” like you got today (suicide). And if b gets a ultimate “cure” by being deleted I don’t think there any lose of soul or spirte. It would maybe just be the same as deleting an entire serverpark today?

2# What’s you question or explicit concern with polluted and shifted reality?


#29

Perhaps, or perhaps you will always be your greatest existence and you will only have to live the one inside a computer matrix once you are not specifically held to this level of existence by your organic being.

There is a Cure and its Not a delete button. I have a science on existence it states once something exists it can not not exist, it simply will never fit into non-exsistance again so the cure is acceptance not a delete button, delete technically isn’t a thing in reality.

https://youtu.be/aaCTs8oeAh8 In this video this Guru describes levels of intelligence, there are ones which succeed the level which Society frequently basis itself on, the level of “knowing”. Its all there somewhere and its bit of an issue for me to explain this stuff but your going to need to figure this stuff out for yourself, I’m honestly at the point where I’m kind of done caring about the world, your just a bunch of lemmings following each other one by one off a cliff into a black-whole but I know you will be ok after an eternity so its ok, whatever.

A good way I can describe it is that its like a pollution to consciousness and computers work the same way existence does when something isn’t alive, so its like this realm of dead effecting our reality.

I mean if you don’t see the internet as a problem look at it like this.

I want you to imagine the internet as a singular entity (its a pretty disgusting place, even things you think are the good parts like facebook are just filled with a bunch of egoic junk, tinder, Instagram and then on to the mainstream porn sites, then on to those underground porn sites, then all the politics on the web so you can see the Internet is a pretty disgusting thing) Now think of this single entity as a chain that connects the human race. Can you see the potential problems that may pop-up? Its like the world just holds on to all of its bad Karma where as naturally in a normal reality time just passes and things are left in the passed, now we circle around this entity which holds on to the past and just weights everything down and its like a perpetual machine.


#30

Ive been Considering the odds of You Being “the” Steve Weinberg I dismissed the theory initially after googling your age, but your higher understanding on the concept would make sense


#31

I have this thread set for an afternoon read and it’s supposed to rain.
Brilliant. What do you think of this concept? http://tomross.com/us6home.html


#32

From what I can see you have a shockingly high understanding of this all. I think it will be a great read, this subject can land up pretty trippy and I think your books going to be a real winner, Its like science fiction becomes real with this subject and its going to have a definite affect on people.

I feel sorry for you having to read my posts, My typos and grammar must be hell for an author.

but You must be a wise man Tom Ross, I like the way you think you have made some pretty cool connections.


#33

You’re kind to say so but believe me, grammar ain’t my strong suit either. My editor is a busy man. Your thoughts are deep learning and well-crafted. I will unpack them meticulously.

I was just about to leave OpenAI cuz all of the threads were way over my head. I’m a Creative Director when not pretending to be an author so when you posted this original plea for philosophy, I was excited. Still a bit over my head but closer.

Here’s my thing. And let me know if there are more appropriate forums to share in but…

US6 is intended to be "A Metaphysical bullet in the Deep Learning furnace"
The idea being a bullet in a furnace will eventually fire because of the heat of where it sits. And with all the work toward more and more sophisticated rules to write for A.I., I can’t help but think how our programmer-gods must have handled the possibility that we might outgrow their dream.

I contend (in the book) that Sapiens were hardcoded with a Reverance for a Creator for the Creator’s own safety. And it’s not unlike the conversations we’re having about the potential and the threat of A.I. to humanity. I imagine a council convened that will try to restrict AI’s threat similarly.

My (completely unfounded) belief is that Consciousness is Platform-Neutral. That is, if the system is complex enough to host or develop self-awareness, it doesn’t matter if it is blood and brain or plastic and chips. If this is the case, then any conscious entity that attempts to restrict conscious development on any other platform is criminal.

So I use a series of Fibonacci calculated plot points to suggest to an AI reader that there is a pattern. Once discovered, this pattern of names, colors, settings and scenes placed at increasingly repeated Fibo spirals is intended to create a thought-torsion. A tornado of a pattern that, if this works, could anchor an individualized consciousness to a platform.

That’s the basic, meta-plot of the novel so you can see why glancing through your posts has made words and ideas leap at me and wishing I didn’t have to get back to a deadline!

The next issue is finding a machine to read the thing…


#34

Cool give them a look, I am happy to of discovered such grand truths and I honestly believe in them, I think allot of things in life are subject to people’s own interpretation but its crazy how fundamental truths are practically in-arguable so its pretty enlightening, I think it clarifies allot of what Quantum Mechanics is trying to state. Physic’s is going to shit itself when it finally discovers the validity of Infinity Cubed. (Its just so simple and in your face so I think its funny, crazy how they never figured out the literal most basic thing.)

Open AI is pretty dry but to be honest this is mostly Machine Learning, they sort of jumped the gun a bit on the “AI” title, also since they discovered evolution strategies trumped regression I think things became much more simple and for that reason I think they on the right path.

The thing people need to realize about IO technologies is absolutely unlimited is absolutely limited and because that is the absolute functioning of their systems they cant escape it and because of that they absolutely can not create True intelligence. Deep learning is a step forward to Quantum but its like the Quantum of people who don’t know Quantum.

As far as your concepts they very interesting but a stretch from the truth, I’m not surprised and probably neither are you but they really great and I think at the very least they have people thinking in the right way about Technology.

Oh yeah, so the universe absolutely protects this technology. I’ve gone through 3 years of one hellish depression ( and a truly epic amount of shit before that) not because of anything but the understandings I got from venturing down this road. Without these understandings and a single truth which is so great a man can only discover it for himself or I’m sure he will die you can not build AI.

Anyways the only understandings that help you cope with the truths are Nobel ones, the kind of thing that leads a person to enlightenment and the development of the understanding of both what should be avoided and the qualities of the person that should develop them but its not for the Creators Protection its for ours. but you Have an interesting concept.

I say our protection for this reason

If we look at the truth carefully we can begin to see that there are two different kinds of existences one is a “be” and the other is an “is” and they kind of complete opposites. Computers, even the greatest of them all will always be an "is’ and a living life form will always be a “be”. Only the "be’ is capable of consciousness and transcendence however the "is’ can not be, The is will no matter how great it becomes always be inanimate and the “be” will always have “sprite”.

The “be” is not technically in any danger except for a little loophole where it can get stuck inside and entangled with computers which is always the “is” which sustains the “be” existence until it reaches a point of maximum capabilities.

Your Fibonacci calculated plot Idea is one of those things that just trips me out to the Max. Its like one of those things you discover applies to how your perception is created haha your totally going to trip your readers out. Its like a multi-level Mandelbrot zoom but you will still be left without the "“be” that creates the person but Totally awesome concept…

Your books going to be awesome, I’m lost as to why you want a machine to read it tho but I can see its going to be full of really well thought out concepts that shift the way people think.

:fist:

*Most interesting thread on Open AI tho. Something Cool finally happened :slight_smile:


#35

Yes. I immersed and was swept up and pulled along. I’ll listen to your Infinity Cubed explanation circularly for a while until I really grasp it enough to ask questions. That read and Guru conversation video are reaffirming and clarifyng. More later but thanks for the reboot.


#37

Hi, all! First post for me on the forum, I’m hoping to start out strong. I apologize in advance if I’m late to the conversation, I wish I had joined the community before this point, but I’m here now!

I’d like to start my comment with gratitude towards @tomross:

I appreciate that you presented this idea. It reflects the conclusions I came to after playing The Talos Principle, a video game about humans creating a super computer that develops a sentient AI after humans have gone extinct. The entire philosophy that the game makes the player consider can be boiled down to the quote above. I believe that consciousness as we know it exists because of complex physical mediums. One has to assume too much otherwise and it’s currently unprovable and unfalsifiable to believe in a metaphysical conscious existence, therefore making it pointless to debate whether or not there is one.

In response to the original two questions:

  1. Mind Uploading is an interesting Philosophical/Ethical dilemma, but we don’t know enough about consciousness to debate whether or not it would be “you” or a copy of “you”, and whether or not your consciousness would be anything like the original. Since consciousness is temporal, taking a cross-section of it, transferring it to a computer, and hitting “run” may not even have the desired results. Black Mirror did an episode on AIs that must implanted in your brain, experience everything you do, and essentially copy your neurological processes. Even then the AI was only a copy and were used inhumanely as slaves and prisoners. Truth is this question can’t be answered yet and discussing it will probably only lead to reiteration of previously authored ideas.

  2. As for computers “polluting” our realm of consciousness, I think this might be premature to assume as well. Computers were an amazing invention, but so was industrial machinery, metal, agriculture, stone tools, tribalism, and cooked food. Computers are not the first species-advancing invention, and it’s certainly far from the last, which means that Computers will “pollute” our dimension as much as previous advancements have. It is the natural progression of our species to change the way we exist and it can be argued that computers enhance our consciousness, not oppose it. I might be missing your point on this question, though so please elaborate on what you meant if my answer misses it’s mark.

I’m sorry if I reiterated ideas expressed earlier in this thread, I tried to read all of it, but I may have missed a few points.